Diaries of a Non-Virgin Bride
March 9, 2009 by Guest Authors
Filed under Relationships
As-Salaamu `alaykum,
Honestly, I wasn’t even going to tell you. Alhamdulillah, all of our questions back and forth have seemed productive, and I agree with you that we could be a great match insha’Allah. I decided long ago that it’s best not to reveal what Allah swt has concealed. That’s what all the shaykhs say, and I decided that’s what I’d do. Keep it a secret. But that changed when I had tea with your mother yesterday after meeting with you.
She seems like a wonderful woman. She seems pretty confident that we’re going to work out, she was already giving me advice on how to maintain a strong marriage. Most of the stuff I’d heard before; compromise is essential, don’t go to sleep angry with one another, and so forth. She also told me I was just the “right type” of girl that she’d always hoped you’d find. A practicing Muslimah, educated, well-mannered. “It’s so hard to find a good girl these days,” she said. “Some girls, they go off away from their families, or even with their families and they go wild.” I laughed at that, thinking that she was talking about independent women that have lived in college away from their families, etc. But that’s not what she meant. “But it all comes out the wedding night or soon after. No matter how good she is at pretending, men always know. They can always tell if she’s had experience,” she said. “I’m glad Abdurrahman found someone like you,” she said, patting my hand fondly as my heart dropped into the pit of my stomach.
They always know, she said. They always know.
I’m just going to come out and say it: In my freshman year of college, I dated a guy named Mark. We met in an anthropology class, and hit it off right away. I’d never had a boyfriend before, and he showed so much interest in me, I was really flattered. I was young, impulsive, a bit reckless. College was such a new experience, and it really overwhelmed me, without my even noticing at first. Back then, I was passionate about Islam – the first to stand up and explain that Islam means peace and isn’t about terrorism, to explain the spiritual benefits of Ramadan – but in reality, the phrase “Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life,” was just a slogan that I used when making dawah, and not something I’d yet internalized.
I was with Mark for seven months. We had sex. He was my best friend, and we talked about everything. Islam was still important to me (even though I didn’t really understand yet what it was), and Mark and I had many conversations about it. He responded positively to the things I said about my religion, and I’d built up this dream in my head where eventually he’d convert to Islam and we’d get married after college. I pretended to myself that because of this goal of mine, everything I was doing was okay.
As our relationship progressed, I was still involved in my school’s Muslim community, going to jumuah and study circles. In time, I learned more and more about what the implications of Islam were for me as a Muslim. My iman became stronger, and so did my guilt over the sin I indulged in regularly. I heard ahadith I’d never heard before about zina, and the Quran became more to me than just a book. Slowly, the childish fantasies I had began to dissipate. The prospect of me, with my serious sins and disregard of Islam, somehow being a great example that would turn Mark into a perfect Muslim man and marrying him and then having a family – all of this started to fade away into reality. Eventually, I found the spiritual, emotional, and physical strength to break up with him. And I’ve never looked back.
I hope this doesn’t change your mind about this marriage, change your mind about me. Please don’t judge me based on this alone, it really doesn’t tell you anything about who I am today or who I will be in the future. It was a monogamous relationship. I never cheated, and I was never in a relationship after that. I don’t have a habit of dating, or sleeping around, or serial relationships with men. It was a mistake, but one that I stopped and repented for, alhamdulillah. If I had the level of iman that I do today back then, I would never have done what I did. Qadr Allahu wa maa shaa fa’ala.
On a personal level I’ve come to terms with my mistake. I’ve prayed for forgiveness so much, repented to Allah swt and insha’Allah I will never again commit such an enormity. Since the end of that phase in my life, I’ve progressed more and more as a Muslim every day.
I believe that if I married you, it would be a means for me to continue to improve as a Muslim and get closer to jannah; and I think that I can help you, too.
If you’re no longer interested, I can’t say I understand, but I won’t be surprised. My apologies if I should have told you at the beginning of this process, and I hope I haven’t offended you in any way; please forgive me if I have.
Your Sister in Islam,
Saba (not the author’s real name)
Photo: Joe_Focus
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Dear Sister,
I don’t wanna sound like a smartass but I read between the lines and I feel that you are still very mad at yourself. I don’t mean, “forget it , it is nothing” but since you realized your mistake and prayed for forgiveness, you really should get it over with. Allah sees all, knows all, and Allah took you away from your mistake and put you on the right path. So you should be thankful and say to all those giving you an attitude (not necessarily your fiancé, but especially the sisters who might look upon you)that “Even Allah forgives (hopefully) all mistakes, who are you “people” not to forgive me.” I am telling this because I have seen so many sisters –yeah most of the time it is the women not men who direct harsh criticism towards their sisters who made a mistake!– being so harsh on others as if they are all pure.
Secondly, I am really curious whether any guy would do the same as you did. I hate when men do all kinds of things and don’t even bother to feel ashamed or guilty themselves and society doesnt care muhc about it. I am not very familiar about USA, but here in Turkey when men sleep around it is usually not much of an issue; it is sometimes praised even as a ” necessary experince” but when it is the women, they are labeled even to the extent of “whores.” So I wonder what your hopefully mother-in-law would do if his son was not a virgin. Would she bother to tell you, would she feel bad, would she be mad at his son? And she is wrong, men can fail to understand if a woman had experience, dont make me say how they can be tricked into believing you are a virgin:) so what you did is being honest, you could have hid it. I dont belive you explained it because you were afraid that he would understand it no matter what, you did it because you obviously wanted to be honest. All in all, I can also understand if he decides to cancel the marriage but not because you are bad woman who deserves to be punished, just because it is better to cancel it if he can’t deal with it. Hope you will have happiness in both lives sister.
p.s: sorry for my mistakes, I am not a native English speaker and hope I could explain myself.
I agree with so many of your points, Büşra! Regardless of the Islamic rules and recommendations with regard to such situations, people usually don’t tend to think that a man’s past should affect his current marital matches/prospects, whereas for a woman it spells an end to all decent potential — if she’s honest, or was unfortunate enough to commit her sin in the open!
Hi sister.
They don’t always know. How would they know, if they don’t have experience themselves? How would they know if they deem you as an impeccable woman of virtues? Allah knows, of course, and you did right to not to reveal what Allah has concealed.
You said you wouldn’t understand, but you wouldn’t be surprised either. You should also try to understand, as it is not that hard.
He may easily go with: “The adulterer cannot have sexual relations with any but an adulteress, or idolatress. And the adulteress, none can have sexual relations with her but an adulterer or an idolater: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.” Nur-3
On the other hand, he may go with: ” And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. ”
(s)he who repented is like him who has no sin on him(her).
These words of comfort is for people who has sinned, and they are rays of hope. But the way of a muslim is to live between hope and fear. Try to keep this concealed. This is no light matter for muslims, and words of comfort may -godforbid- lead to innocents being swayed into sin. If everyone were to be pardoned, why would there be need for a penalty?
My prayers are for you and your potential husband.
maassalaam.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG! I’m in the same situation but I dont know how to untangle myself from it. Please please please can I have your email address so I can talk to you privately?
‘It was a monogamous relationship. I never cheated’
Sorry- how is that a virtue? You’ve committed zina and are proud of the fact you never ‘cheated’ when the relationship itself was illicit in the first place?
‘If you’re no longer interested, I can’t say I understand’
Those who are intolerant surely deserve no tolerance. At least this man’s prejudice would have an Islamic basis- we shouldn’t marry people of zina.
They’re no longer people of zina if they’ve repented.
MD, sure, I would’ve understood her if she accepted all responsibility and had just said, look, I’ve made a mistake, I will understand if you don’t want to marry me. It’s her audacity that shocks and repels.
Good point WM. Probably best not to reveal what Allah has concealed to begin with.
This is a very interesting and hard subject to discuss.
The letter is heartfelt, in the end where she says “I can’t say I’ll understand” I don’t think she is being out outrageous. In my opinion I think her feeling would be hurt, and she would be saddened. Having been VERY honest, revealing what Allah has forgiven, I think that is what she was trying to imply. However, we can not see into the hearts of the parties involved and Allah tells us to love our UMMAH and to give 77 excuses before judging. I am no judge, and I wish them the best in their paths to marriage InshaAllah.
When a person is exposing their sins in front of the public i.e. the readers) they are trying to rid their heart of the guilt it feels for committing the sin. Instead they should be exposing their sinful self (we all are sinful in different ways) to the only one who should know about the sin, ALLAH swt. NO ONE else has ANY business in knowing. By telling others about our sins, it is like we want others to accept us with our sin, we want to free ourselves of the burden of this secret. Let Allah swt accept u and don’t worry about people.
When a person has truly repented, they should just walk away from the sin and realize that they are NO LONGER THAT PERSON. The soul was dead when the sin was committed, and now the soul has been revived and given a NEW LIFE. Hence a person should stop identifying themselves with the sin and move on. UNLESS if that sin is still a part of them. Islam purifies a person of their sins. A sincere repentance leaves the person purified!
And if she dated him for months doesn’t that raise issues about the veracity of the rest of what she says? The fact that zina and alchohol are rarely apart from each other, the fact that to enter into such a relationship in the first place she must’ve had no compunctions about free-mixing, about laughing and flirting with men- none of which bode very well for the future. Why are people being blamed for their perfectly rational prejudices against zina and those who indulge in it? Surely the fault is on her part, and the burden of tolerance should be on her side. And yet she has the chutzpah to tell him she wouldn’t understand a refusal?!
Aouthobillah..
Sister all you had to tell that person is that every human being commits mistakes and if you are looking for a virgin then i am not, and if you are still ok with it then fine else I am not the woman for you. Thats it. Why do you have to humiliate yourself when Allah subhaanahu taala has said openly that He Subhaanahuwa taala will forgive the sins even if they reach to the sky if a person repents and ask Allah without associating any partners with Him.
And WM, fear Allah because we dont know who is better in His sight. One might be a virgin but commiting kufr all the time, whereas one might had a bad past but had sincerely repented to Allah subhaanahu wa taala and is the purest of us all.
Please dont throw your judgements like this. We are talking about a sister here who has repented. and we muslims do truely consider them like our own sisters. Please be soft to people who come back to Allah subhaanahu taala seeking His mercy and to us muslims. Dont give them a bad impression or hatred as you would be questioned about every word you say.
may Allah guide us all.
In a situation like this, it’s for the brother to decide whether he trusts the veracity of the rest of what she’s saying; although Islamically she should just conceal this from him entirely. Where exactly do your ideas of how zina is perpetrated come from? While indeed they may often involve free-mixing, alcohol, etc, for many Muslims this isn’t how it starts, but rather sometime much more illicit, low-key, unsuspecting… totally possible (perhaps even probable) that this is how it would happen for a Muslim woman, a hijabi. Just some thoughts — don’t rely too heavily upon generalizations.
There was obviously free-mixing and khalwa involved right from the beginning (the author basically admits as much). Perhaps this points to an underlying problem with their fiqh. Perhaps they saw no problem with eating out with guys, making male friends etc.
‘Where exactly do your ideas of how zina is perpetrated come from?’
From Islam. Why would khalwa, unnecessary conversations etc be forbidden if it wasn’t because they led to zina? There is no way that a person can uphold all these prohibitions and engage in zina- it’s literally impossible.
And she was with this person for seven months- doesn’t this speak volumes? The fact that it wasn’t a one-off- the fact that she loved him and spent so much time with him…etc.
Ah, I see what you’re saying about the khalwa, I agree. But the Muslims I know who have engaged in such things — not lifestyles of sinning, but a breach in otherwise less-haram lifestyles. Like it certainly indicates a problem with gender interactions, but doesn’t necessarily mean the person is engaged in lots of other kabaa’ir too, such as alcohol, esp. if they have ideas that ‘talking to men is okay’ or whatever floating around in their muslim community … which is another problem … people and communities have very flexible ideas of what kind of interactions are okay between the sexes, which leads to things like this. but ideas on booze, etc are usually more cemented and closer to the Islamic truth. wa Allahu alam. Like it can start really small… But I agree with you 100 percent about the tone … Allah guide us all to the straight path!
MD: There are plenty of Muslims who espouse such interactions as a lifestyle, but I think you’re right that ideas about the Islamic line on gender interactions can complicate things and lead to slip-ups for people that are better-intentioned.
And I agree with you MD. My problem is with the author’s tone- that’s what I take issue with.
By the tone I don’t even mean the admission of zina. I just mean the, yeah, I’m over it, I repented, big deal, I can’t understand why this might be an issue for you…etc. I hope that makes sense.
That does make sense, gotcha.
Its more that if one has repented and Allah has forgiven, it’s as good as gone, she is no longer a person of zina and clearly regrets it, so maybe she cant understand, that if Allah can forgive her, what is it to anyone else to hold it against her? Fair enough there may be some people who just dont want someone with ‘experience’, they may not even go for reverts with past relationships etc, but people who have moved on from those things, have regretted and repented, shouldnt have to continue to mentally punish thmselves forever more, to should how much they regret it, and it doesnt make it okay for people to hate on them
*poetry snaps*
hating people is never ok. this especially goes for our muslim fellows. our position in this matter is clearly outlined. we have to separate actions from the people who commit them. we shouldn’t take haraam lightly, and shouldn’t deny our brothers and sisters our compassion either.
The question is, why do such people want to expose their sins to the public, why must such a person make the sin a part of their IDENTITY ? If we commit a sin and truly repent, then we should be ASHAMED to expose ourselves in front OF ANYONE AT ALL. A sin is a transgression againat our Creator, and hence should be a matter discussed ONLY with our CREATOR.
As the hadith indicate, Allah swt hates that a person commits a sin, and then exposes himself to the people.
Salaam,
Well said! you got the best openion……………………. Nothing better could be said……
JazzakAllah.
I think many readers are misunderstanding the intention in posting this article. The point of this article, and of the site as a whole, is to bring attention to issues which Muslimahs in the West do face. Yes, zina is a sin, but it does happen. How will our community learn to deal with such issues when there is such a shroud of silence around them?
And if you grow out your beard women don’t even talk to you anyway. It’s like having the words ’stay away’ emblazoned across your forehead.
That may be true for brothers, but hijab doesn’t always have that effect.
A woman who’d grown her beard out wouldn’t have to worry about zina either.
lol. bearded brothers commit zina too, but maybe you’re right about bearded women
hahahhahaha very controversial subject, thanks for the small chuckle while I think of 100 more replies to this article and comments.
What happened between the girl and the mother!?!?!
huh?
Salaam Alaikom they had a get together, or meeting. Mom liked her and “assumed” she was “untouched” and she loves her for his son, but the Untouched her. Please go back above and RE read the whole entry with the punctuation and you will get the Whole gist of this thread.
All I can say is, alhamdulillah I have lived under a rock.
It’s kind of unfair though- the brothers who do their job and stay away from women/sisters are penalised for it by their communities when they want to marry.
It depends where they are looking. You have to find the people who appreciate it, and there are PLENTY. You just have to look a little harder.
God forgives
sometimes
If it is sincere..indeed He does.
How r v suppose 2 kno?
Assalaamu alaikom
Interestingly enough, we don’t even know if this story is true, and if it is, whether that letter was actually sent (note ‘diary’ in title)! Maybe she was trying to get feedback first. If that is the case, let’s give her some good positive feedback for to move forward. And let’s give her some benefit of the doubts too!
For those that have “lived under a rock,” aren’t converts, haven’t had such experiences as this sister, I don’t think you really can understand where she’s coming from, especially if you’re not married and have never been in a relationship based on love. The sister admits that she didn’t realize the extent of what she was doing.
“In time, I learned more and more about what the implications of Islam were for me as a Muslim. My iman became stronger, and so did my guilt over the sin I indulged in regularly. I heard ahadith I’d never heard before about zina, and the Quran became more to me than just a book.”
She was probably in love, for even good reasons as she saw it, to a person of good character and traits, and mistakenly convinced herself, with the help of Shaitan, that it’s not really that big of a deal, especially if he becomes Muslim and they get married. She was probably afraid of loosing a good person to marry and hope that he may become a Muslim.
“I pretended to myself that because of this goal of mine, everything I was doing was okay.”
Of course, this was faulty logic, and although she “knew” it was wrong, she didn’t understand that reality of serious it was, but when she now heard and understand some new things that really struck her, she left her sin, wa alhamdulillah. If we understood the reality of any of our sins, we wouldn’t committ them, but simply “knowing” a hadith sometimes doesn’t affect our eeman enough to cause us to change. Espeically in this sitatution, a person’s eeman hangs over their head committing zina until they repent, so without eeman, how is that you can “understand” mere information? Min fadlillah, and He azza wa jalla is the only one that can help us out of these situations, but of course we just need to make that first step, and obviously this sister did if she was saved from this.
Her not “understanding” why the brother may say no I don’t think is really what she is trying to say but maybe she means “I can see why you’d say no, but I don’t think that’s the right decision in light of the fact that Allah has forgiven me already if my repentence has been sincere, and because of that, I can’t say I really ‘understand’ why you then wouldn’t forgive me. If you are the person I’ve judged in my assessment of you for marriage, then I think and encourage you to forgive, because I do want to marry you.” That’s my guess what she’s saying, wa Allah `alm.
Yes I agree she should hide this, but I can see where she is coming from. Just from an anatomical standpoint, you can tell whether a female is a virgin or not, save an injury or something abnormal, and that’s not even to mention how a comfort level with another individual can make these things obvious to say the least, but if the brother has not been involved with anybody, then yes he may not notice. I understand though how his mother scared her. Could you imagine finding out that your to-be spouse on the wedding night had some serious things that he or she didn’t reveal and you didn’t expect it? Talk about a lump in your throat! I can see why she wanted to avoid that out of fear that she could literally end up in a divorce one night into marriage if the brother is totally freaked out. Can you say embarassment, humiliation, heart-broken? Plus she doesn’t want him to go through the same things!
Really we, and more importantly she, has to think about these things and we need to understand where others are coming from instead of “throwing the book” at them. Just my two cents. I think these are the most important aspects of the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet sallaho alayhe wa salam the we all too often forget. Remember the hadith of the lady who committed adultry and confessed to the Prophet sallaho alayhe wa salam. He didn’t criticize her or even tell her that was wrong, why’d you do it!
Anyway, my honest recommendation sister is go speak with somebody of serious wisdom and knowledge. I realize it’s not as simple as it may seem. Secondly, just from what comes to mind, if you haven’t revealed this yet, then don’t, but find a round about way of gauging your soon-to-be husband’s comfort level with unclean pasts without getting specific or even leading him on. Then if something does happen, and he does find out, he’s already stated his position on this and then knowing what it is you were actually referring to when you were asking these questions he may be able to just forgive and forget as he really should. InshaAllah it would be only then an obstacle you’re both already prepared to move past, together.
This isn’t to downnplay the seriousness of the sin. May Allah protect us from it and may we really seriously fear the punishments of these sins and displeasing our Lord and removing ourselves from His mercy.
Assalaamu alaikom
Assalaamu Alaikom, this is a very beneficial and well put explanation and comment. I wanted to thank you for showing the non judgemental Muslim Ummah APPROPRIATE remark. In Islam it IS forbidden to intermix, and zina, however REVERTS (even Born Muslims undercover zina doers)are not always learned in this or Islam followers. When you take Shahadah ALL of our prior sins are forgivenn.
From a dude’s point of view –
I cant be with someone who had a past even in a halaal manner (like marriage). Sorry to piss off some people, but I’m just too jealous of a man.
Countless number of thoughts would run through my head. It would slowly kill me.
Acutally, I’m not sorry.
There is a very fine line between jealousy and insecurity, and to make yourself feel better you chose the former. You certainly didn’t piss me off
That is nonsense.
So now it is insecurity if one feels upset (and eats him up alive) when he thinks how another guy has enjoyed the girl and she enjoyed him?
What a bunch of bull.
B, are you a male or female?
The prophet pbuh married Khadija and she was married twice. Was he eaten him alive? Definitely not.
You feel insecure because you fear they may be better than you in the various aspects of life …including intimacy.
Omar ibn alKhattab Radiyallahu Anhu slaughtered his camels everytime his wife rode on them because he didn’t want anyone else riding them. Did he care (and was jealous) more about his wife than RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam cared about his wives? Definately not.
So I do not know what your issue is. I never said it is haraam or anything of that nature. I simply stated my opinion as to why I wouldn’t be able to marry one with a past. It somehow seemed to have hit a nerve of yours.
I guess with your logic, Omar ibn alKhattab was insecure.
citation for the camel deal?!?
Asalaamu alaikum Omar, are you angry or depressed? No, InshaAllah no disrespect meant walahi. I have been reading a few articles in which you have replied & the blame always seems to be on the woman or anyone but you. Have you been hurt? If so Ask for the offender to apologize and forgive them, so you can smile InshaAllah. Smiling is Sunnah and prescribed for us. Don’t get me wrong I am so far from perfect it’s crazy! Allah (swt) forgives though and calls us back to him over, and over again and even told us to not be judgmental and provide 77 excuses for our siblings in Islam. Islam is beautiful and not sent to us as a hardship. There is NO fault on you wanting a virgin bride, non. You have the right to decide what you’d like. Judging others decisions though is not in our rights. Sometimes Virgin doesn’t mean the best one though. We must always remember to be careful what we wish for. Peace a blessing unto you br Omar and InshaAllah you get a wonderful wife. ~Holly
Asalaamu alaikum Omar, are you angry or depressed? No, InshaAllah no disrespect meant walahi. I have been reading a few articles in which you have replied & the blame always seems to be on the woman or anyone but you. Have you been hurt? If so Ask for the offender to apologize and forgive them, so you can smile InshaAllah. Smiling is Sunnah and prescribed for us. Don’t get me wrong I am so far from perfect it’s crazy! Allah (swt) forgives though and calls us back to him over, and over again and even told us to not be judgmental and provide 70 excuses for our siblings in Islam. Islam is beautiful and not sent to us as a hardship. There is NO fault on you wanting a virgin bride, non. You have the right to decide what you’d like. Judging others decisions though is not in our rights. Sometimes Virgin doesn’t mean the best one though. We must always remember to be careful what we wish for. Peace a blessing unto you br Omar and InshaAllah you get a wonderful wife. ~Holly
B, anyone can have a preference, there is nothing wrong with that. I personally could never be with a guy who has had past relationships either because I protected my modesty and I want someone who did the same. Its a personal preference.
that’s a little scary
Many *brothers* think like that but most of these *brothers* have been with other women, so why the double standard(esp. when the one has been in a halaal relationsip)???
Preach on!!!
salams to all
I just thought I’d point out or reiterate a few points:
1.) The author wrote this piece anonymously. She is not flaunting her past mistakes or “revealing” what Allah had kept hidden, quite simply because she hasn’t given any personally identifiable information. So, let us not say that she’s been publicizing her past sins.
2.) Although generally speaking the rule is to not uncover those secrets of your past that have remained buried, some people do indeed tell their fiancee or prospective spouse because they want to have that level of trust where they can talk about their past mistakes, in order to solicit such support from the significant other that would help prevent them from falling into such mistakes in the future. With me personally, I’m a fairly forgiving kinda guy and if a girl has committed a mistake in her past [of any kind, great or small] I would just tell her to keep it between herself and Allah and to make sure she’s made sincere repentance for past mistakes.
3.) There are many guys who don’t care if you’re a divorced woman and thus, most probably no longer a virgin. I’ve considered divorced sisters myself in the past, including one who had two young daughters. It didn’t disturb me one bit that she wasn’t virgin, and I absolutely intended to treat her daughters like they were my own. To be brutally honest, I find it mildly annoying that men in our various societies place such a huge emphasis on virgin, never-married women. And because of that, its caused many women to suffer from lower self-esteem once they’re divorced because they feel stigmatized.
Long story made short, if you’re the type of woman who is divorced or has committed a mistake in the past like shown above – but you’ve sincerely repented for it – then make sure you find a guy with a heart and wings that are bigger, much bigger, than his pride or ego. That way, you don’t have to worry about your less-than-perfect past; you simply leave it between you and your Creator.
jazak Allah khayr for your words, akhi.
Maverick, that was a well composed post – Masha’Allah.
However, as for your comment about how you find it annoying when men place a great amount of emphasis on ‘never-married, virgin’ girl, I don’t believe that holds much water.
Why do you find it annoying? It certainly is his preference. If you’re going to go as far as saying it is annoying for men to do that, then you should also say that it is equally annoying when a woman does not allow her husband to have another wife.
Why does the woman get a pass for having certain views regarding her preferences, but a man doesn’t?
Omar, salams
Marriage is that one issue or item in life where I feel that a person has every right to be superficial about things because its one of the biggest things that can ever happen in her or her life. So, a person can indeed reject a potential spouse because of skin color, weight, ethnicity, whatever. One should be satisfied with the physical [as well as mental, spiritual, etc] appearance of the other before marriage.
The reason I said that [above] first is because both you and I agree that we have our own preferences when it comes to prospective spouses. I have no qualms if one man specifically only wants a virgin woman.
What I get mildly annoyed at is, that such insistence on that particular trait [virginity] of a prospect causes an imbalance of priorities amongst many women, simply because so many men are insisting on it. Some people consciously or unconsciously come to place a disproportionate value on virginity, as compared to other traits.
For example you may have two women, both aged 22. One is non-virgin and divorced, but her character, personality, and eeman are remarkable. Everyone can see that she would make a great wife and a good mother. The other woman is of mediocre personality and eeman but she’s never-married, and a virgin. Many men place a higher value on the second woman simply because she’s virgin – disregarding the other qualities [or lack thereof]. And as a result, people in society begin to appraise the value of female virginity totally out of context. In my opinion, this is an indication that one’s priorities have become disoriented.
This is not about you since I don’t know you, but I hope I’ve clarified my earlier comment.
And for the record, I already believe that it is indeed annoying when a woman prevents – or tries to – prevent her husband from taking a second wife. I personally have no desire to have more than one wife. But I bristle at the notion that a woman should attempt to restrict my rights by even making the suggestion that her permission is necessary before I marry a 2nd wife.
As for the reason why women are given more slack with such sometimes-annoying opinions is simply because we’re men and we think logically, while women think emotionally. Allah ta3ala has His wisdom in creating such a status quo, but my opinion remains that women are given more slack simply because nabeyuna Muhammad [saws] advised us that we can only go so far in correcting our wives [or women], just like one can only go so far in trying to straighten a rib, until it breaks. And breaking a rib is the similie used to describe divorcing a woman.
So just live and let live.
[holy crap I wrote a book!]
salaam alaikum akhi writing a book is sometimes very necessary to express everything we meant to get across. ~Holly
As a woman trying to find her path back to Al-Sirat Al-Mustaqim, I find WM’s comments very disturbing. I am assuming that WM is a female because only a female can be so cruel to another female. I thought Islam is a religion of Mercy and Forgiveness. Though, alhamdullilah, I have not made mistakes like the sister who has initiated this much needed discussion, I have had mistakes. Frankly, people like WM are what drove me away and who are scaring me on my way back. But, alhamdullilah, Allah’s call and my belief that Islam is not all about people like WM, I believe that there is a place for me in Din Al-Haq.
Maverick, I wish there were more Muslim men like you out there! Your words strike a cord and give me Iman that
Sorry, you obviously didn’t understand the point I was making. And don’t judge me, because you’re not in the least familiar with my opinions. You don’t know what my attitude is towards women/people who have committed zina in the past, nor do you know my personal preferences regarding marriage to divorced/non-virgin women (FYI I prefer it as there is no blood/screaming/pain that way). You don’t know any of these things, and yet you presume to know me inside out. In fact you are so presumptuous as to know exactly what category of people I fit into- ‘people like WM’. Do you even know what I believe, about anything? I’ll answer for you: no, you don’t.
And here is an insight I want to share with you: Islam isn’t about ‘people’. It is about you and Allah. It has nothing to do with ‘people’. You live and you die alone, you bear the punishment of your sins alone, you are saved or damned alone, and nobody can help you. If the bad example of a person is enough to put you off, then your faith is reliant on others’. We should aspire to be at the point where, if every single person besides us forsook Islam, we would remain steadfast upon it- that’s what iman is. That’s the religion of Ibrahim (‘alayhi’s salam).
WM, your tone seems a little harsh…we should be Merciful to each other as believers. I’m not commenting on the content of what ur saying at all…just commenting on the tone. May Allah bless u.
And I took issue with the way the intolerant author refused to understand a possible refusal. It is her intolerance I have a problem with.
WM, salams
In the interests of giving the author 70 excuses, I just want to point out that written communication is often inadequate when relaying informal thoughts and ideas. You have to remember that what’s missing from the written text is those voice dynamics that would have been present if she were relaying the same thoughts to you over the phone. Things like pitch, tone, speed, inflection, pauses, and so on. These characteristics of the voice convey substantially more depth and breadth of intent than mere written words.
And if you were sitting face to face with the author, then you would have also witnessed her hand gestures, gaze, facial expressions, and body language – all of which would have expressed the intended meaning of her words even more.
The difference between understanding one party’s intent from merely a written communication versus face-to-face communication is like the difference between a small 4×6 black and white photograph, and a brilliant full-color image the size of an IMAX movie screen.
If we keep that in mind, it may be easier to assume better about the intent of the author, inshallah.
cheers
Salaam Alaikom, she seemed repented to me. I think she was VERY honest and since she has been forgiven by Allah and taken Shahadah that is what I felt she means to Imply. InshaAllah we can all remember online things come across different, myself included.
Though a Muslim’s relationship is with Allah and Allah alone, Allah also asked us to guide, teach, and be good role models for each other. One of the biggest Ajirs with Allah is guiding one into Islam… your example does not do so.
In any case, I started reading and delving into Muslim sites because I am eager to learn. I am sick and tired of the intolerance I see all around me and I do not want to see it with other Muslims. I am eager for good role models who can teach me and help me on the path of Al-Sirat Al-Mustaqim. I am not looking to fall into a battle of words – I have had enough of that. If you have any thoughts or recommended readings for me, I would be very appreciative to hear about them. If not, lets not engage in a verbal battle.
Al-Salamu Alaykum.
My advice; don’t expect anything at all from anyone and place your trust in Allah.
this is VERY true
‘They always know, she said. They always know.’
Well, if they are the sort to wave the scarlet-stained bedsheet over the village square, then that’s probably the only way they (and other like-minded villagers) will know. Many parents have told their daughters that: we will know as soon as you ‘do it’. I believe this is just a scare tactic. Wouldn’t it be better to tell daughters (and sons) that, ‘Allah will know your sins, even if I/we don’t'? A fear of Allah is superior to having a fear of what people say.
Why would anyone (the author) want to marry into such a family; one who prizes a piece of skin over true piety? A hymen (or virginity) is not a guarantee of a good character – nor vice versa. But those who do try hard to stay away from zina for the sake of Allah are doing well: keep up the good work, mashaAllah! You are doing what others have failed to do.
I do admit it is a difficult situation. A friend of mine started practising Islam again after many many years of living as a non-Muslim, and living with her fiance. As she was born into a (cultural) Muslim family, it was expected that she would be a virgin, and as she has never been married it is assumed that she is – ‘Have you ever been married, Sister?’, ‘No.’ Muslim-speak for ‘Are you a Virgin?’ She is facing the same dilemma, to cover her sin (which we are meant to do) or reveal this one sin because it is part of her ‘value’ and him and family getting what they ‘paid’ for. Sorry, I don’t mean to sound sarcastic. I do understand both sides. May Allah help us.
For those who stay away from zina: may Allah reward you. And likewise for those who have made mistakes and have sought forgiveness from Allah and continued to stay away from it. May Allah help you all to find spouses that overlook sins of the past (do not hold you to account for what has been done before practising Islam), are kind and loving and fear Allah.
I wonder why the moderators are not deleting some of the sexist comments here. Some of the comments regarding divorced/non virgin women are really disturbing. May Allah guide us all.
Amin, the point of leaving some comments on here is really to show how sexist and ignorant some men can be.
Indeed it is a great dilemma between hiding sin, as one is supposed to keep between Allah and oneself, and being ‘honest’ with the prospective husband. The fiance should ask himself, has he committed zina? Masha’Allah, the capacity for forgiveness is great.
The brother’s point about disproportionate emphasis on “virginity” is extremely important. No question, sin is sin. However some young girls/women have been victim of sexual assault/rape. I was one. Since my religion (or people in my religion) taught that now I was “dirty”, I was led to despair and willful sin. Masha’Allah, I now know my worth to Allah. May We help me on the path of righteousness.
Assalaamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
While I do believe that of course people have a right to want whatever they want out of a potential spouse, I was honestly shocked to read some of the responses here. I’m a relatively new revert to Islam (January 2008 Alhamdulillah) and I wonder where these opinions leave not only born Muslim women who have made mistakes, or previously married women, or victims of sexual abuse, or for that matter women who happened to break their hymen while playing a sport or something…but where do they leave those of us who weren’t “special enough” to be born Muslims? According to the standards of many here, I would be counted out for not being a virgin (for both situations where I was sexually abused and situations of my own choosing), and I imagine also for many other things I’ve done before converting to Islam. And I know I can’t be the only convert in that situation. I wouldn’t want a husband who was so caught up in whether or not I was a virgin or how many people I have slept with, because to me that’s not as important as -who- I am, but I can’t help wondering…are we just damaged goods as far as Muslim men (and some women, apparently) are concerned?
Very well said. Good food for thought
As a sister: I do not think it is disturbing for brothers to want to marry a virgin because this is stated in the ahadeeth of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam to marry the young, fertile virgins. I do not think this is sexist at all –audhubillah– because it is the truth that men desire this. But at the same time, there shouldn’t be a stigma if a sister had relationships in her past or is divorced because like many of you mentioned, the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam only married one virgin and that was A’ishah radi Allahu anha. We should not put these sisters in a corner for whatever has happened (really a lot of it is CULTURE, not Islam), and I agree that this should be kept between them and Allah and not revealed if they are not asked about it. Allah concealed it for you, so take that as a sign to keep it between you and your Lord.
I think we should calm down on both sides…We should not attack brothers for wanting to marry a virgin; this is just like any other preference, like if he wants to marry a sister with a darker complexion or from his own country. He has the right to this just as the sister does. On the other hand, brothers should grow up and realize that people make mistakes. They should not vilify or treat these sisters like they are used pieces of meat or something, subhanAllah.
In my community, it goes to the point that if a brother only SPOKE to a sister for marriage, and it didn’t work out, then none of the brother’s acquaintances or friends would approach her because she is now “sloppy seconds”…now that is just sad! lol makes me laugh actually…wow.
I wonder how the sisters feel though: if you are a virgin, would you consider a brother who is divorced?
and Allah knows best.
btw I would have *no* problems with non-virgin wife (if she had repented etc). Just thought I should make that clear.
Salaam alaykum sister,
Very well done, alhamdulillaah, in learning Islam and turning yourself back to Allah subhaana wa ta’aala. The reality you and many sisters in your situation have to deal with is that many Muslim men, even Western born and raised, are cultural throwbacks to the motherland when it comes to this issue. As one clearly admitted, they simply couldn’t handle it.
The problem we have is the classic male double standard – men are studs if they sleep around, and women are whores if they do the same. I’m not sure where this entitlement comes in from some guys, saying, “But I saved myself, I deserve the same!” which is kind of an idiotic statement and thought process – our status and worth is based on our taqwa of Allah, not sexual experience.
May Allah make your situation easier, and may He give you a mature and secure husband.
Siraaj
InshaAllah and for all the brothers wanting Virgins, are they virgins as well? If you want a pious wife, are you pious. It’s like sisters who want the praying, successful man, are you successful and a five praying sister? We all are guilty of double standards. Lets all remember to to turn to Allah, be accepting, forgiven, understanding, and united InshaAllah~Holly
Yes, they are virgins. Actually the most annoying thing is that they’re stigmatised, by other Muslims, for their conduct towards the opposite sex. It’s horrible, w’Allahi a person who lowers his gaze and doesn’t have female friends etc is looked down upon among Muslims. If you don’t shake hands with women, you’re considered ‘extreme’ and will suffer for your convictions when the time comes to marry. If you abstain from unnecessary interaction with the opposite sex, you’re resented by other Muslims. This has been my experience. And men who have never had ‘girlfriends’, such as myself, aren’t usually considered suitable husbands, due to lack of requisite experience in interacting with women. I hope I never get married.
You will be hailed as a hero if you marry a hooker.
Bro don’t hope against something that is a prescribed Sunnah of the Prophet sws. TRUST that for Allah swt, ANYthing is possible. He will find you the EXACT person that you want, provided that you deserve it. I always thought to myself that I needed to become a better Muslim and fix my akhlaq toward others, my time management ETC before I find a husband.
I felt that the reason my dua for a pious husband was not being accepted was due to my personal shortcomings and my lack of making sincere and good dua. BE the person you want to marry..that is what I felt. I had to do before entering marriage. I worked on myself for like 5 years ha. Now alhamdulillah I am married to an amazing man. He is modest and like u said, was somewhat shunned by the worldly ppl of the society for lowering his gaze, not interacting with women, etc. He also thought he would never find someone that he was looking for, but subhanAllah we have been married almost a year alhamdulillah.
I would recommend listening to the CD set “Dua the Weapon of the believer” It is amazing! Alhamdulillah.
Hm, so the preservation of virginity has nothing to do with piety? That’s classic irja’. Actions are a part of iman.
Yes, actions are a part of iman, but realize that correct action is based on knowledge – the sister made very clear that at the time of her relationship, her knowledge level was not high.
However, once her knowledge changed and she learned her mistakes, she repented, stepped away from the behavior, and did not return to it. She has, in effect, taken the knowledge, internalized it into herself, and converted it into positive action – that does indicate her iman, but to her credit, not discredit.
My statement remains valid – our taqwa is not based on previous sexual experience – it is based on where it is at the moment, which accounts for current practices and beliefs. The difference between what I’ve said and what you’ve said is that I’m focusing on where she is, given what was written above, whereas you are dwelling on her past, where she is not – when we meet with Allah subhaana wa ta’aala, we are judged on our final state of affairs and raised up on it.
And FYI, were we to dwell in the past as some of the brothers are doing, many sisters who convert / revert would not find husbands because of this jahili mentality, even though Allah has forgiven them all their sins, and they are in effect better than us, particularly right after the moment of taking the shahadah.
It’s the same mentality that causes the “damaged goods” perception against divorced sisters, even in situations in which the husband was at fault (of course, not all situations are like that, sometimes it’s shared, sometimes it’s the wife alone, but regardless of who is to blame, the divorced woman is almost always “damaged goods”).
WM, if you truly want to go back to the example of the pious predecessors, then look at how their society treated marriage and divorce – yes, an unmarried YOUNG virgin woman was most desirable, but by and large the men married divorced and widowed women, women who were something else which I won’t mention before Islam and were something else after it.
Let’s be real men like the sahabah and marry women for their taqwa and practice, and where they are now, and not based on insecurity and immaturity.
Siraaj
Sorry, did you pay any attention at all to what I said?
And thanks for the insult.
I’m going to start a club- for people who don’t have relationships before marriage. Apparently that makes me part of a privileged minority, even among Muslims. Anyone want to join?
Your level of sarcasm speaks volumes.
Seriously.
Assalaamualaikum
I feel under no circumstance should you said anything. U repented, u turned a new leaf, the matter is between u and Allah.
I also agree with everything Siraaj said.
So is it haraam for men to say they want a woman who never did anything? No. Rather, it is their preference.
So what’s the big deal?
Firstly, “never did anything” vs “virgin” are two different discussions. A person can engage in many other sexual acts without crossing the line of ending one’s virginity. That would make that person (male or female) an unchaste virgin.
Secondly, there are two types of preferences, one that is physical, and another that is rational. From physical preferences might be height, weight, look, etc that we’re naturally attracted to.
From the rational side is the judgement of compatibility in terms of interacting and living with the person – how they practice the religion, deal with family, their khuluq, and your judgement of all of that. There’s also their family status, their occupation, their wealth, and yes, their virginity.
The problem in this discussion is not one of a hukm or a ruling on having such preferences, but whether the basis of such a preference is intelligently rational to begin with. If someone were to say, “I would like to marry a young virgin girl because the Prophet recommended it,” I would say that’s praiseworthy, more power to you for wanting to follow the Sunnah.
On the other hand, there is a problem with judging a sister to be “damaged goods” due to sexual experience (in or out of marriage). Our Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam may have recommended marrying a virgin, but look to his practice as well – his first wife was married not once, but twice, before she married him, she bore almost all his children, and she was the most beloved of his wives to the point that even ‘Aisha was jealous of her.
So in view of the discussion above, I don’t see the preference for virginity based on the Sunnah – it’s based on back-home cultural preferences that denigrate the social value of a woman based on her sexual status – that mentality has to be rooted out because it’s the same mentality when taken to its full conclusion allows males full promiscuity with no social repercussion and as we see in our Muslim countries, be they desi or arab, the honor killings which apparently only apply to females.
Siraaj
Then I guess I must be out of line to say I want a woman who hasn’t done ANYTHING.
It would be unfair on my part to speak for others, but I certianly can’t imagine marrying someone who had engaged in oral sex (let alone intercourse) in her previous relationship(s) (even if halaal).
Call it insecurity (I don’t think I am insecure) or call it being shallow, but that is something I am not willing to deal with.
So my question to you, if the girl has repented from the behavior, maybe even a convert, and you don’t know what she’s done, but you know the gist of it (let’s say intercourse), and everything else is great except this one part, WHY are you not able to deal? Or even from the perspective of a woman who was married and either widowed or divorced, why would you not be able to deal with this?
Siraaj
Firstly, I wouldn’t think any less of a girl if she has repented (if it was a haraam relationship). If Allah can forgive her, then who am I to think any less?
I wouldn’t think any less of a girl who is widowed/divorced since whatever she did was within the Islamic boundaries and everything was halaal.
Secondly, the reason why I wouldn’t be able to deal with that is because I am a very jealous person. Now, I know one may say that other men are jealous too, yet they move on and put that behind them. Although I agree with that, I personally cannot see myself moving on from that. I am not saying that I am right. Rather, I am saying that this is how I think and feel.
The the mere thought of knowing she enjoyed someone else or someone else enjoyed her just kills me. It is already driving me nuts and I don’t even have anyone!
So let’s be clear, the weakness here is yours, not hers, correct? Is that what you’re saying?
Siraaj
Is jealousy a sign of weakness?
I do not think being a jealous person has anything to do with being weak.
In some cases, it is good to have, and in some cases, it isn’t – the protective jealousy one has for their spouse for example, is good. But what if you married one of these sisters, didn’t know of her previous situation, and then it comes to light that she had a relationship – could you really say this type of jealousy is praiseworthy?
My point, though, is that whatever the final outcome, whether it is good or not, the sister should not be judged as a lesser human being, or as dishonorable, or as having dishonored her family, or any other such ridiculous notions.
Siraaj
Bismillah
As salaam Aleykum
I’m not sure if my story will help but take from it what you will.
Five months ago, I married a brother of good character. Alhamdulilah. He has many wonderful attributes that I love and respect. He is kind and respectful to both his parents and my mom. He tries to be a better Muslim and he even encourages me to do the same.
I am a revert (as is he), and since reverting he has supported and guided me in this wonderful deen of ours. I am very thankful for that. In return, I try to be a dutiful wife. I love and care for him the best way I know how. I attend to his wants and needs without him even asking. On the surface our marriage seems great, however, my husband has a hard time dealing with a relationship I was in prior to us meeting.
The relationship that I was in lasted for 5 years. Within that amount of time I planned to marry and live the rest of my life with that person. Obviously I didn’t work out for many reasons. The man was very abusive both physically and emotionally. And we never got married. When I found enough courage I finally left. Hoping to make amends for what I had done, I asked G-d for forgiveness ( I still do). Within a few months I found the truth…I found Islam. I thought this was Allahs way of saying all if forgiven because I really wanted to be a better person. After studying and learning about Islam for nearly two years I decided to accept Islam wholeheartedly. I began attending a local Masjid and was involved in the Young Adult Group…that is were I met my husband.
We began chatting online. We talked about our paths to Islam, our families acceptance of our being Muslim, future plans etc. I also revealed the relationship I had with the guy mentioned above. He also revealed to me that he had past relationships, both causal and committed. After talking for a several months we decided that we were compatible enough to get married. We spoke with the Imam at our local Masjid and spoke with our families to get their input. Everyone seemed pleased with the marriage. He told me he was happy that he had found such a nice and beautiful girl to marry.
Unfortunately, despite the love he has for me, he has a habit of bringing up my past relationship. There are times when everything is fine (or at least I think so). Then, he’ll retreat to himself and won’t speak to me. When I ask him what’s wrong he responds in a rude manner. After much probing he’ll finally tell that he his mad at me for being with that other guy. I try to assure him that my past is in the past but that doesn’t seem to matter to him. When I remind him that he was in many relationships in the past he becomes even more upset and says I’m just being defensive. I guess (like some men) he has that mentality that men have the right to sow their wild oats without being questioned or punished for it.
Whenever he brings it up I always ask him why he decided to marry me. He knew about my past before we were married. I made sure to tell him because I didn’t want any secrets between us. He tells me that he loves me and he is happy to have married me but he also feels betrayed by me.
I’ve learned now to recognize when he is upset about this particular matter so I try to stay clear of him. If I approach him when he is upset he becomes even more upset. There have been times where he has yelled at and hit me. I’ve gotten to the point were I don’t what to be reminded about my past anymore at least not by him. I do enough of that myself. However, as his wife I want to make him feel better but I don’t know how.
It’s eating him from the inside, he was better off marrying a virgin (or believing that he married a virgin), he won’t stop and he will continue to bring it up, and it will eventually reach a point where he won’t be able to claim that “he loves you and glad to have found you”, the resentment will continue, and since he is already showing signs of abusive tendencies it will continue to get worse. Worse comes to worse, he may yearn for a “virgin” – since he seems to fixated on that particular issue.
Seeking counseling, or simply put an ultimatum, if he brings up the past one more time, you are leaving him. If he does, leave him. It’s better to leave now than to leave later . . .
So how does it feel about having the burden of potentially breaking up a marriage?
Sister haunted by the past,
I am worried by your admission that he has hit you for this. Please take care of yourself and make sure that you don’t fall into the same cycle of abuse that took you 5 years to get out of. I think you need to realize that you don’t have the power to fix him-he is the only one who can change himself. You shouldn’t cling on to the hope that if you stick it out that maybe one day he will change. Maybe he will but it shouldn’t be at the expense of your well-being. I don’t think it’s fair that you are being tortured over something that you have done in your past before you even became Muslim! It’s ridiculous and all it’s going to do is erode your self esteem and confidence as time passes. You don’t deserve that.
Maybe you should both go and talk to the Imam from the local masjid that you mentioned or some other knowledgeable person that your husband respects. Hopefully, a different viewpoint can help him realize the error of his ways.
Omar, I don’t know what it feels like to have the burden of potentially breaking up a marriage. When I ask my husband your question I’ll let you know how he responds.
Haunted by the Past, my comment wasn’t directed towards you. Rather, it was in response to what ‘B’ had said.
However, I do hope Allah blesses your marriage and makes it easy for you.
Omar, I sincerely apologize for my response. I tend to get defensive at times. I’ve shared my story with others, and I have heard similar stories to mine. However, it always seems that in situations like this all blame falls on the woman…even if her spouse has had multiple relationships that were haram.
Salaam alaykum HPTP,
Very tough situation, I can’t say I understand it being a male, but I know many sisters go through this very same problem – that men don’t want to be with women who have experience, even when they themselves have it.
One common cause for the problem is insecurity – if you return back up this thread, you’ll find insecurity to be a major factor (was the other guy better? will go through the person’s mind).
If you’ve figured out the times when he’s upset by what’s happened, that’s a good first step. The second step is to keep doing what you’re doing – stay away. Let him work it out on his own. Men do need that “away” time when they need to be in their own head and fight their demons.
What you can do look for those times when he’s not upset, when he’s happy, and go out of your way to express how much he’s “the man” (without mentioning your previous relationship). And then nimbly step out of his way, go out with a friend, etc when he’s not in the best mood.
Siraaj
May Allah SWT forgive all those who have taunted or mocked this girl directly or indirectly. I am not good at references, but the ones who read, can recall the severe punishment from Allah SWT one might be getting himself into by judging (& criticizing) a person by his apparent past (or present) sins.
I am young, unmarried and I live in a place where I can have numerous opportunities to cross the line. But, as of now, when I think of marrying someone, I do not hesitate to prefer to go with a divorced woman with a kid if I find her comparatively good enough for the things I look for – Allah SWT knows best.
I have a slightly different story to tell. Religion has always been important to me and I have always tried to be the best I could be. I always focused on school and men never entered my head. I never looked for trouble. However, during my junior year of college, I was raped. It was by a fellow Muslim I knew and trusted. He was also a virgin. I cannot describe to you how horrible I felt – so disgusting, worthless, and like my life was over. The worst part was I could not tell anyone and had to deal with it myself. When I found out that he raped me because his friends were making fun of him for still being a virgin, I was even more hurt. He told me not to worry since he would marry me. I saw no way out of the situation and so I convinced myself that I was in love with him. Now over a year later we are still together. Miraculously, for the most part we are happy. He is a good man. However, when we fight, he likes to threaten me by telling me that I am no good to him now and that he will leave me and get himself a nice virgin girl back home. The comment never fails to sting.
Wow. This is more complicated than I thought. Personally, I am virgin woman too, and it will bother me if the man isn’t, BUT ONLY if he doesn’t seem to have repented. If people have repented, then Wallahi, I am as sinful as people come, and I want Allah to forgive me too, so why would I look down on others for their sins. I agree with the comments on, ‘it is between Allah and them.’ Thank you for this post, sister. It actually made a difference in my opinion. Of course, I understood and had no problem with converts having this past, but I kinda would get squeamish at born Muslims doing it. I know this is a major sin, but who are we to judge the rest of their personality based on that one mistake if they have moved on. Plus, I may have received a very good Islamic upbringing, may be they weren’t lucky enough to get one.
And my heart goes out to the sister with the last post and the one who is currently married to another convert. I don’t want to judge the men involved either because I don’t know them and don’t know what they are going through. But I would suggest that you get some help and counseling. Because you can’t let this keep hurting you – you guys need to sort this out before it becomes worse.
And Siraaj, I agree with your comments and feel your pain. But I don’t think it is fair to launch criticism at others like this. I think you also feel that individually, it may be fine, but I guess your issue is with the societal discourse on this. I think that can only be ameliorated through better education about Islam and Sunnah amongst men. We should gauge our efforts towards that, and thank you for the examples you gave. I think that’s the first right step. I also want to add an example of Um Salamah here. When Prophet (pbuh) proposed to her for marriage, one of her issues was that she was too jealous (as in, she won’t like sharing her husband with other women). And the Prophet (saw) didn’t condemn her for that, but merely responded that he will pray to Allah to remove her jealously. And Um Salamah did marry him with that put aside. So, we should always actively try to become better muslims and remove such feelings from ourselves. It may be our personal jihad that we have to fight (and similarly, other people may have other issues to deal with so don’t think you have it hard). And seek Allah’s help for if you take one step towards Him, He will take 10 towards you.
I have also sinned and lost my virginity at 15 and ever since have felt shamed. I am turning 18 and i have recently met a religious man whom i believe i fell in love with. He does not know about my feelings, but he inspires me in every way to strengthen my faith in Islam. I feel so blessed to have met him but i also feel afraid to take our relationship further then friends. I feel as if i have regretted my decisions in the past as deeply ans sincerely as i could and i want to believe that forgiven by Allah (swt), but i am also afraid that i am doing it for selfish reasons. I have read most of the comments and i seen repetitive comments about concealing the writers problem. There is a surgery on the market as to restoring virginity, what are your stances on those?
Thank you all! And may Allah be with us all. salam.
Assalaamu alaikum
No matter how good he is and how religious he might be, if he hits you call 911, or call NISA. Never take abuse lightly.
Sister, there are a few things that a person does that erases all his/her past sins and one of them is coming in to Islam from Kufr – reverting to Islam.
Foremost, you should not have disclosed it to him, as those sins that are hidden by Allah, you do not disclose them and those are not ’secrets to be revealed’ rather they are ’sins not to be revelead’
However, now that your husband knows about it, Neither he nor anyone else have a right to question you or judge you.
What would his reaction be if he had married a divorce or a widow like the Prophet (SWS) did.
Get him some good conselling, and inshallah he will see his error and will love you for what you are – A Revert Chosen by Allah for his deen with hidaya and love reserved only for a select few.
Wassalaamu alaikum
Call 911?
What an idiotic statement to make.
Why?
What’s idiotic about calling 911, Omar? It’s an emergency situation.
Why on earth would a Muslim wife want a kaffir to come and save her and use his laws to punish the husband (unless he is one of those guys from Bridges TV who slit his wife’s throat). Not only he will get locked up, but it will make things worse:
1. He will become even angrier at his wife. This will make things worse.
2. She is now left alone. If she has kids, they are now without a father. This may and can lead to many problems.
3. One can only wonder what kind of treatment he is getting in prison just because he is a Muslim.
Let me guess, you would be okay with the child calling DCFS after he gets spanked for not praying.
I guess its the Western influence that is corrupting people. Can’t really blame them completely. God I hate Oprah even more.
Maybe if Aasiya Hasan called the cops, she wouldn’t be dead now. . .so Omar, let me ask you, when should a wife call the cops?
Some men have to learn the hard way
B, please reread my first sentence in the post that you’re replying to.
Omar you may never beat or murder your wife but people do and it stems from the wifes oh I can’t call 911 attitude very often times…
so will you answer…when should a woman call 911?
Salaam alaikum yes Omar does have a point!
shocking I know, but he does.
Sisters when you dial 911 I want you to know what will happen. He will go to jail. He will get a PERMANENT record, You will have to go to court.
If you might stay with him don’t do it or you will never be able to secure a good financial future because he wont get a good job or decent place to live with that on his Criminal record.
No one wants to employ angry women beaters, nor living in their property killing the wife because it got carried away or at the very least causing ruckus and noise and possible destruction of property.
However NOT calling 911 makes it look okay.
It NEVER is okay to be abused, Never! No matter what, NEVER.
Abuse leads to more abuse, disrespect, violence, and 8 times out of ten…DEATH. It is very real, very true and even if he “loves” you he can kill you. He can push you and you accidentally hit your head, he can kick you or hurt a major artery or he can be so enraged with hatred He can love you literally to death….
NEVER put up with Abuse Ever!
Muslim or NON Muslim it is a terrible disease and it is UN Islamic.
On this topic of dealing with the past – I recently came across this lecture by Imam Suhaib Webb on youtube. It is REALLY REALLY worth watching for everyone who has been interested in this thread. Part 2 is where you can start http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqnLD9wXAl0
And at the end of part 3 into 4 is where he talk about taubah… at least watch til part 5’s end.
If anyone on here is suffering, as I see some of the posts here, from feeling despiar, and hopeless, or they are forever not “good enough” then please watch this lecture (its broken into parts.)
It will give you the hope and correct understanding you need and deserve.
very good comment and awesome way to get us all back on track to the original article in question.
“There is a surgery on the market as to restoring virginity, what are your stances on those?”
Just a piece of advice, sister: I think you should talk to a sheikh or an imam about this rather than asking for people’s opinion on a forum who may not know any of the jurisprudence regarding this. I understand that it is kind of much easier to remain anonymous and get an opinion like this but you should also be concerned about the quality of those opinions. All you will get from here is “I think…..” statements. If you are not comfortable talking to a local imam in person then, there are online avenues to contact shuyukh and imams. May Allah make this easy on you.
And Omar, thank God for the West that has still kept the Islamic traditions alive because Muslims are so hell-bent on destroying them. They may be Kuffar but they are just to each other (minus the economic meltdown and Iraq war) and that is why their societies are thriving. If there was only one Muslim left on the face of the earth but he was unjust, Allah would destroy him over the kuffar who are just to each other. Yes, it is true – this is how much Allah hates oppression.
If the woman is in imminent danger (like beating which the brother was referring to), then hell yes, she should call 911. If her Muslim community lacks the resources to help her out, then let the non-muslims do the job. The husband would be angrier? So what? If he can’t control his anger and beats his wife, he may as well burn in more anger because his behaviour can’t get any worse. The woman will be left along to take care of her kids? I will take that any day over being beaten like an animal and it is the responsibility of the community and the government to help her out in this situation.
I am sorry for my harsh criticism of your comments, but this is exactly the kind of mentality that needs to be wiped out from the Muslim community. This kind of attitude gives men a sense of fearlessness because they think no one will hold them accountable or punish them. Because it is a taboo to get the police involved – they oppress the women openly and fearlessly. A night in the jail and it will bring their senses back to them. No one should be made to suffer oppression, especially not for the illogical reasons you gave.
Salaamu alaikum Very well said!
*applause*
my respects to you sister.
As someone who went through Domestic Violence before, who’s sister was murdered because of the lack of calling 911, getting sick of it and leaving, and a fellow sister in Islam to another woman who defended herself and had to prove her innocence, I give you my respect for a job well done answering this! You go girl!
Oh god I hate holier than thou attitude.
So somehow I’m a selfish little prick now.
Great.
Salam Alaykom,
I read most of the comments here, I just want to point out something that no one is even considering! DEEN = LAW, practicing religion of islam is practicing God’s law. If you pass the red light in the city you will be fined and considered for punishment by the people who put that law on the city. Now to get back to the point, Women and Men are equal yes, but not the same, absolutely different! A girl coming from a family of culture and value know very well that virginity is the most sacred thing she has, when a muslim man fall into this mistake with “western” women, it is not on the same level of mistake of when a muslim women does it! we have signs everywhere even though some don’t go along with our modern mentalities, such as marrying up to four wives in Quran, and also there is a Quranic verse that states that this current-life is even decorated with the “desires” )shahwa for women! it doesn’t state it the other way (as shahwa for men) there lies the big difference. Second you cannot compare a divorced woman or a widow to a woman who committed sex. Because a Widow or Divorced has done it legally (under God’s law) and there is no crime with that, but the one who goes as far as giving her virginity up in secret breaking God’s law is absolutely a great mistake, not only it is betraying her family and people around her and her future husband, but the sin will haunt, in my opinion it is better to conceal it and that is smarter than bringing it up to the future husband. With all due respect to all the girls who committed this sin, my opinion is only for those who come from a Muslim, cultured, and value family, despite the fact of being modernized and a little cool. Breaking the virginity is breaking the most sacred thing you have and you will be haunted by it for life, at least it won’t be easy for you.
Peace.
as-salaamu alaykum,
Firstly, this article is a bit depressing but its reality. although I do not agree with the way the sister did this, telling the man she will marry this man(he ex boyfriend) giving him this mans name, with a bit of details, will only make things worse.
Men are jealous some men know, but as long as its just an assumption they do better with that, no man wants to feel and have thoughts and ideas of his bride with another man or soon to be bride in this case.
I mean even if his wife was divorced they just dont want to think about it.
So, somethings are better left unsaid, perhaps breaking it off, marrying a divorced brother, revert, or a brother who also had a past would have been better.
But its not wise to go about it this way (exposing your sin in such a detailed manner).
In regards to zinna, everyone commits sins and this is a major sin, but Allaah is all forgiving….
May Allaah protect us and our loved ones from these situations. – ameen
salaamu alaykum
If a person is sorry for all his/her bad doing and a says sorry sincerely to the guilts in front of Allah then I think he/she knows himself/herself what Allah says to them. and let me tell you one thing that Allah replies must. Anyhow this world is very difficult for all females and males enjoys in the same society without even saying sorry in front of Allah.
Wow Im really dissapointed in our muslim sisters, Im a male muslim 22 years old and hold virginity in high regards. Im still a virgin, I know what you are thinking oh he probably never had a girl. Well thats incorrect forget the girls who cam in my life Ive had women drop thier clothes off and beg me and I wanted to each time but for some reason with Allah’s SWT grace i felt ashamed and never did it. I’ve had my freinds mothers seduce me and grab my private areas, I mean it’s partly my falt for revealing my body through tight shirts but I worked out so hard i wanted to flaunt it. But Alhamdullillah Allah SWT kept me safe from it and filled me with so much shame that i no longer wear tight shirts or walk around shirtless. Inshallah I pray all the men and women in our community realize the importance of virginity. It’s difficult I know but I pray every day that I keep it until I mary and I also ask for a ife who is pure since I am as well. I no longer socialize with women, I always had respect for female muslims, never stare, approached, and talked. All out of respect of my faith yet they walk around engaging in Zina with muslim men and then the most extreme white, spanish and black men. Disgusting you leave your people to feel better of yourself. Here are the facts 98% of non muslims will not marry you even if you gave your virginity. Girls are dumb guys use and abuse them, then the girls just to get back become tramps and thena re addicted. I say I am glad Allah SWT made a promise those who are pure will recieve pure, those who are filth will recieve filt, that is his promise and you will have a husband who fllth. You deserve it for abandoning Islam and your culture, the thing we stress the most and you can not handle that. You sisters cause so much stress for us pure muslims the rare few and I hope Inshallah I dont have a daughter I do not want this stress on me. I am old school I was born and raisd in New York yet embrace the old thought because those were people of honor and the rest are of disgrace. You women should worry about our lord watching you engage in such acts. DO NOT tell me its hard, I am a damn good looking guy and am constantly seduced and am very charming I can talk a girl in to anthing. I have control why dont you. You wanna say Im extreme fine but remember this islam applies to all aspects, because of all you tramp females, i am considering asking a sikh girl for marriage whom I have known all my life because she is pure and stayed away from men, she likes me a lot her eyes tell it and the way she acts around me. I will try to convert her otherwis it is a no go and catch this out of a 10 she is a 6 but I do not care I want a person who is beautiful on the inside. Marry for money and our lord will embarass you more and more, marry for loks and he will make you uglier day by day, marry for religion nothing else. I hate all of you sisters out there who engage in such activities, including the men who take our sisters honor you scumbags, but its more the women’s fault you hand a guy anything on a silver platter he will take it. All you sister’s I hope your freind who took your virginity was worth it because it will bother and haunt you all your life unles youve become a real tramp by than there is no hope. So screww you dirt bag sisters, if you saw the face and bosy Allah gave me Mashallah you would want me but Inshallah my faith will prevail and more of you disgraceful sister’s will end up with black guys who use abuse impregante you and leave you that is your born right
Asalamu Alykum,
1. Brother I would like to know what in the world are you thinking? What makes you think that you are so superior that you can speak to anyone like this whether they committed a sin or not. you did not create her or any other woman for that matter so how dare you speak in this manner! only Allah (swt) can judge anyone and not you or any other human being can judge!
2. She repented so you have no idea if Allah forgave her and your sitting here collecting sins of your own.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)”
[Ta-Ha 20:82]
It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘Allaah says: “O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you and I would not mind. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it.”’”
(al-Tirmidhi, 3540; classed as hasan by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 4338)
It was narrated from Abu Dharr that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that Allaah says: “… O My slaves, you commit sin night and day, and I forgive all sins, so ask Me for forgiveness …”
(Muslim, 2577)
3. You are very arrogant and that my friend will not get you very far. just like this woman you will have to stand in front of Allah (swt) and justify yourself so worry about your problem before pointing at someone elses.
It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No one who has an atom’s-weight of arrogance in his heart will enter Paradise.” A man said, “O Messenger of Allaah, what if a man likes his clothes and his shoes to look good?” He said, “Allaah is Beautiful and loves beauty. Arrogance means rejecting the truth and looking down on people.”
4.how can you advise anyone on anything when you language is so vulgar.
Cursing a great deal is criticized, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer is not a slanderer, one who curses a great deal, one who indulges in obscenity or who in engages in foul talk.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1977); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.
5. And last but not least, you just gossiped about many women who committed this sin but i can swear to you that there is many more men who commit this sin on a daily basis.
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever has wronged his brother with regard to his honour or anything else, let him seek his forgiveness today, before there will be no dinar and no dirham, and if he has any good deeds to his credit they will be taken from him in a manner commensurate with the wrong he did, and if he has no good deeds, then some of his counterpart’s bad deeds will be taken and added to his burden.”
6. and how can you say that they will end up with a black man as a punishment, are you a racist now when we are all considered people in the eyes of Allah?
i can sit here and list your sins all day just based on your entry but people should know better than to concern themselves with what is not there business in such a negative manner.
Allah knows best and he knows what everyone truly deserves and no one else knows so please stop pretending like you do!!!
Salam
Salam,
Sister Jazaki allah khair inshallah for the right answer.. but though i think such an arrogant person who as iam sure have many issues in his life should not bother and answer him..iam not going to add to what you have posted as i think its a good analysis of his -look at me- personality..
wa salam
Salams to all..
Hats of to us Maverick..I really hope there are more men out there like u..I would like to share my two cents thoughts with u..
1. Firstly,marriage is the matter of the hearts which is built fully on adjustment, compromising and acceptance.
2. No one is perfect, every one of us have our flaws and sins that allah has kept concealed..If HE is ready to forgive and forget our sins,then who are we to condemn and criticise others who have erred and repented? If we truly reflect back our own actions and sins, then will we not judge others about their sins!!
We tend to forget who are are and our own sins, that’s why we talk badly about those who repented!
3.What is our guaranetee that we will die in a state of purity that is accepted by Allah swt? Do we know before hand about our future? We have to continously ask dua and renew our Imaan..to live with Imaan n die with shaahadah..only allah knows best about us..our past,present and future
4.Dear sisters and brothers of Islam, please do not condone any one for their sins, especially if they have repented and feel remorseful..show them the faith of Allah..the mercy of allah swt is bigger than our sins..may allah shower his mercy to all of us..
5. Please do not make a mockery about those who have sinned or is making mistakes..Dua for those people if you come across any..Allah is the holder of all things, if HE wills, he can change a good person into bad and vice versa…so pls pls do not judge or comment about anyone’s lifestyle or character or personalities..
6.Allah has made each and everyone of us different..we all need his blessings and mercy,barakah and rahamath..if we hide the sins of our fellow brothers/sisters, allah will hide our sins in the day of judgement!
Wassalam