Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

My apologies for the delayed reply I have been very busy.

The example of Sawda bint Zam’ah rah is as you said; she took it literally, and it was part of some rare occurrences. We know other Ummahaat al Mumineen did go out.

The action of millions of people is irrelevant when it comes to identifying the middle path or what is right, most of the world does what is not right. The action of people does not make the right wrong, or the wrong right. It is very important that acknowledgement of what is right takes place, before concessions are applied. The fact that thousands of women are doing wrong things can not be used as a pretext to make something thing wrong allowable. Or to say they are all going doing it so let’s allow it.

The fatwa of Sheikh Qardawi is a concession it is not a rule. Necessity for hajj when one does not have any mahram, is different to going for a holiday or a trip from one country to another. It is also different to going away from home, when that is not a necessity.

The reference to Niqaab was not to get into the debate on the different views with regards to it. My point was that as long as the woman abides by the rules, even if there are differences regarding the rules, those rules provide her great liberation. However there are certain things she is not allowed to do regardless of which forum of hijjab she has.

Jazakallahu Khairal Jaza

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

JazakAllahu khayran for the reminder, and amin to your du`aas. I previously agreed that we take ummahat al-mu’mineen as an example, and we know that women should go out when there’s a need. I’ve also stated in the article briefly the things that should be avoided so as not to attract men’s attention (which includes khudu` bilqawl, tabarruj, perfume, etc.). This can all be gleaned from many ayat and ahadith that address all women. My point in this discussion was to note that the khitaab in this context is especially directed to the wives of the prophet (asws) because they have a special status and are held to higher standards. Even Sawda bint Zam`ah (raa) took the command in ayah 33:33 literally. Muhammad ibn Sireen narrates that she was told: “Won’t you make Hajj or `Umrah as your sisters have done? She said: ‘I’ve made Hajj and `Umrah, then Allah commanded me to stay in my home. So, by Allah, I will not go out until I die.’ So, by Allah she was not taken out of her home until her janazah, may Allah be pleased with her.”

The questions about children were more rhetorical to show the lack of practicality in proposing that all women who fail to practice complete modesty should remain in the home. When hundreds of thousands of Muslim women have now gone out of the home to gain an education, work to make ends meet or because there’s a need for them in the da`wah, it’s unrealistic to tell them all to stay at home if they’re not going to dress or act appropriately. Some might not know the Islamic dress code; some might need a reminder; some need an Imaan boost and encouragement. So, I think it’s more practical and effective to kindly and gently encourage women to take the example of the sahabiyyat, and serve the needs of their society with adab and hayaa’.

Regarding women traveling without a mahram, some contemporary scholars like Sh. al-Qaradawi consider the different circumstances of our time, and they’ve allowed that women travel with other trustworthy people when it’s safe and there’s a need. The original topic of this fatwa is traveling for Hajj, but it’s applicable for other types of travel too:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544964

As for niqaab and which is the stronger opinion, that’s a different discussion; both perspectives have their respective, valid adillah, and after knowing the different views, everyone is entitled to follow what they view is closest to providing maslahah according to the Shari`ah—for the individual, family and community.

JazakAllahu khayran again for your follow-up comments.

Allahumma ahdina wahdi bina waj`alna hudatan muhtadeen.

Current score: 1 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

I would like to make a kind request that we keep to the rules of Islamic discussion. As the A’imah have taught us, we should not direct our comments to the individual but rather to the arguments they are presenting. I would like to apologies if I have done this in my previous comment.

With regards being definitive, Islamic knowledge is vast, Ka bahrin ameeq, but it is clear. Interpretation of the knowledge happens within a usool. That frame work allows flexibility by it is definitive. As I know you agree, as Muslims our position is sam’ea na wa ata’na once we hear the words of Allah swt, Hadith an Nabawee and Ijtihad of A’imah we don’t try to see what our personal opinions on the matter is. Ameen to the dua you made.

Now to look at the items we agree upon, and Inshallah this will help remove any misunderstandings between us. We both agree that our personal views and what is happening around us is not the source for finding the religious position. The religious position has its own source and they are m’aroof.

We both agree that the ayaat 33:28-34 addresses the wives of the Prophet saw and the reason for this address again is established and we both agree on that.

The question is, are these ayaat and the message contained within them, solely and totally for the wives of the Prophet saw and excludes other Muslim women? Can I make another kind request that you ask your asaatizah with regards to this?

Since I am not disagreeing with you on the fact that these ayaat were revealed for the wives of the Prophet saw in the specifics of the ayaat, such as the choice that was given to them, the rewards and punishments, giving our mothers a distinguished position unlike other women. We both agree to these.

The difference from what I see in your comment, is, that you believe these ayaat and the message of the ayaat are only for the wives of the Prophet saw. For this I am sure your asaatizah can be a good first source to discuss.

With regards “wa qarna” from a linguistic point of you, this is the continuation of the address to the wives of the Prophet saw. However the message is for all women, because the ayah reads “and stay in your houses, and do not Tabarruj yourselves like the Tabarruj of the times of ignorance, and perform the salah, and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger, Allah wishes only to remove the Ar-rijs from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification”.

If we were to use the reasoning presented by yourself earlier, then that would mean we are excluding the other believing women from the injunction of this ayah and the ayaat before. At-Tabari and Ibn Katheer both write under ayah 32, 33 and 34 that these injunctions are taught to the wives of the Prophet saw, but they are for all believing women. i.e fa la takhdh’a na bilqawl, wa qulna qawllan ma’rufa, wa qarna fee buyutikuna….

With regards the second half of your comment the wives of the Prophet saw did not stay at home, nor did the Sahabiyaat. As I mentioned before, this ayah is not saying for them to stay at home, rather it is saying how, when and under what rules she can go out. The position is not to send her back home if she does not follow the guidelines; rather it is she shouldn’t go out if she isn’t going to follow the guidelines.

To the next point, how to assist in her development and how is she to learn and educate. From the ayat addressing women, one thing that becomes very clear is, her dress code and conduct will determine how much allowance she has from Islamic law. For example, a naked woman shouldn’t leave her home. A woman in make up shouldn’t leave her home. A woman wearing perfume shouldn’t leave her home, a woman in high heels making tick tock noise that attracts peoples attention shouldn’t leave her home.

However if she is fully covered, has her abayah and niqaab on, no perfume, no high heels following the rules. She is then allowed to go out of the home. If we even follow the weaker opinion, no niqaab but has abayah and khimar, she can go out.

Once she is out of her home then rules of travel apply, if she is going out a distance of night and day, she needs a mahram. If she is going to stay away from home, she needs a mahram. She is allowed an education, preferably in a segregated environment, or one with limited mixing.

The women of Islam made progress not by mixing; they had their classes and their gatherings. They learnt Hadith and taught Hadith they even taught men hadith, but did so from behind a niqaab or a curtain, such as Zaynab bint Sulayman, whom herself was a princess.

Without elaborating further, the focus is on following the guidelines. Today our youth both male and female, are trying to get the rules to bend with them simply because we live in a different environment.

As with the last two paragraphs I won’t respond to those, as it is not beneficial to this topic and I make dua that Allah swt gives us both understanding of deen, through the light that it was revealed. Many people find knowledge through the window of their own existence, though it is knowledge it is bias and limited to the life the person has lived. We ask Allah swt to give us ilman naafe’a and qalban khaashi’a.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

SubhanAllah, you speak in such definitive language that makes it seem like we’re “changing Islam” and “dropping religious standards” according to what you see is the only right way. I ask Allah that He blesses us all with more open minds and true understanding of the deen.

Extremism is the effect of deviating from the middle path (the wasat), and the term is not only used by the enemies of Islam. Tashaddud is criticized in the hadith: “Indeed, the deen is yusr (ease), and whoever becomes extreme in the deen, it will defeat him” [Bukhari].

I agree that the Shari`ah doesn’t conform to us but that we conform to it, but our understanding of women’s place in society should be based on comprehensive knowledge and not picking and choosing or interpreting nusoos to justify our own views.

Mujahid and Ibn Hayyan’s statements don’t prove that ayah 33:33 is for all women (they only describe what tabarujj is). Just to quote one reference, `Ikramah says (as quoted in Al-Tafsir Al-Kabir by Tabarani): “This ayah was revealed for the wives of the Prophet especially.” Also, how can it address all women when the subject for “waqarna” is still the wives of the Prophet from the previous ayat? Allah (swt) didn’t generalize to all women yet; He only does so starting from 33:35. If I say “The clowns were funny and made people laugh. They had red noses and painted faces. Everyone was happy,” how can I say “they” in the second sentence refers to everyone? Linguistically it doesn’t make sense. I’ll reiterate that the rules for the wives of the prophet in these ayat were due to their status and to prepare for the prohibition of other men marrying them (as stated towards the end of the same surah 33:53).

When you use ayah 33:33 as proof of your argument, it generalizes the specific and makes the strict rules apply to all women. That contradicts the Sunnah because the sahabiyyat were not restricted to their homes and they interacted with men in numerous cases (while maintaining hayaa’). So instead of sending women back home if they don’t uphold Islamic guidelines of interaction, why not work to educate women about the importance of hayaa’ and modesty. I think that’s way more realistic in our times.

If/when you have kids insha’Allah, will you prevent your daughters from going to school and college because they’ll interact with men, work in groups, give presentations and talk to their male teachers/professors? Probably not, but you’d raise them so they can behave with modesty and hayaa’, right? What if they slip at times, will you and your wife remind them kindly or keep them at home to punish them because they didn’t listen?

If you choose to be more limiting with the women in your family, be my guest and may Allah reward you for your intentions. But you can’t call for strictness with other Muslim women when the Shar` and Sunnah allow for more ease and leniency.

wAllahu a`lam.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

The matter with regards to the correct position of Muslim women in Islam can not be labeled as ‘extreme’. We need to be very conscious of these labels. When the kuffar label us it is something we have not accepted, but when it comes from ourselves, then it means we have accepted these labels. In Islam we follow the middle path, as the Prophet saw said, khair al umoor awsaatuha, the best of matters is the middle. However the key as always remains, what is that middle path, and how do we align our understanding towards that. Also if I could stress what we do as individuals is not necessarily the middle path and we need to look into religious reference for how the middle is defined.

The position of women in Islam is one that is very clear, and as you rightly said, she is part of society, and there is no doubt in that. The question is how she takes part in society without transgressing the limits of Allah swt.

We can not say something is allowed simply because our environment today is a mixed environment for the sexes. Therefore because our environment is of such we must also drop our religious standards to comply.

I would like to elaborate using the examples you gave,

1. The Mosque of the Prophet saw at the time of the Prophet saw was a fairly small Mosque, the men and women would have been pretty close, so what made it possible for them to pray in the same space without a barrier. As narrated in Sunnan Abu Dawud 1:381 the Prophet saw said “Do not prevent the female servants of Allah from the Masjid of Allah, but have them go out without wearing fragrance”. This Hadith in a nutshell explains why it was possible for those Saalihaat to go to the Mosque. They observed the correct manner of dress, they were covered head to toe, they walked with haya, they spoke softly, and they wore no perfumes or knocking shoes. Even though those Saalihaat implemented the best dress codes, the Prophet saw in the next Hadith of Sunnan Abu Dawud 1:382 states “wa buyutuhuna khairun lahuna” “even though their houses are better for them”.

2. As for our leading educational and political institutions and what they do, can not be a basis or reason for changing the laws of Islam. As mentioned earlier, what Muslims are doing can not be the focal point in finding what the religious middle path is. The middle path has to be identified from the Islamic source, Quran and Sunnah. The ayah you quoted is out of context in this matter simply because it is not referring to working in a mixed environment, or that they should mingle, but rather working towards a common purpose, forbidding what is wrong and encouraging what is right. Each in their own domains and that is how they are to support one another, not to cross the fence saying “Brother let me lift that with you.”

As with regards the Ayah 33:33, it is consensus among Mufassireen that from 33:28-32, Allah swt addresses the wives of the Prophet saw specifically and aspects of the address such as the reward for good deeds and punishment for bad deeds, were specific to them only. However other parts of the ayaat apply to all Muslim women, i.e being soft in speech, speaking in an honorable manner etc.

Ayah 33:33, this Ayah applies to all Muslim women. Mujahid said about this ayah, and there is great lesson in what he says “women used to go out walking in front of men, and this was Tabarruj of Jahiliyyah” Ad Durr Al Manthur 6:602.

How could this Ayah only be for the wives of the Prophet saw, when the message is for all women?

Muqatil bin Hayyan said with regards the same ayah in Ad Durr Al Manthur 6:602 “Tabarruj is when a woman puts a Khimar on her head but does not tie it properly”

Meaning that her embellishments are becoming visible to non-mahram men. Again this is reference that this ayah is not just for the wives of the Prophet saw but for every Muslim woman.

I see that you paid great attention to the Ayah, so I will try to explain this ayah. The Ayah is not a ban on women from going out. Rather it is an injunction on when and how she can leave her home and what rules she has to follow.

The essential injunction in this ayah is that the home is also a hijab for the women. Along with it is also that she not move around in public without hijab, as it used to be the case in Jahiliyyah. The word Tabarruj essentially means manifestation or display and at this place it means the display of personal embellishments before non-mahram men. If it was totally forbidden for her to go out, or as you say trapped in the house, Allah swt would not have said wa la tabarrujuna, this clarifies that she can go out, if she follows the rules.

This now brings our discussion back full circle, unless our women folk do follow the Islamic rules of engagement (between men and women), then they are better off staying at home. Things like her giving public speeches, where the tone of her voices rises and falls, things like her traveling without a Mahram, things like her being a night and a day away from home without a Mahram, giggling and mingling in MSA settings are all part of the Tabarruj of Jahiliyyah, and yes this ayah then does apply to her.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

JazakAllahu khayran Brother for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you that women should begin their da`wah in the home and that women should primarily be of service to other women in society. However, there’s two extremes that the Ummah is struggling with today with respect to Muslim women. One is from the feminist/liberal side that’s pushing to ‘liberate’ them from their ‘traditional’ roles and in essence dissolve their essential role as the core of the family (which is the building block of society). There’s also the other conservative/strict extreme that wants to trap women in the home and prevent them from interacting with any men. The more balanced position is of course between those two extremes.

Yes, we recognize that a woman’s primary role is caring for the husband and family,raising righteous children, etc. but we also call for her to gain an education and contribute to islah (reformation) in her society (socially, educationally, politically). This would be impossible nowadays without dealing with any men.

More importantly, if you’re taking the Sunnah as an example, women were heavily involved in society and interacted with men during the Prophet’s time (of course, while observing the Shar`y guidelines of dress/code of conduct). They attended prayers in the masjid (without a barrier between the men and women!), they attended gatherings of knowledge, asked the men questions and corrected them on things (and vice versa), they nursed the wounded on the battlefield and some even participated in battle and defended the Prophet (asws).

Nowadays, our leading educational, Islamic, and political institutions and organizations all have men and women interacting and doing constructive work together – so are we going to isolate women just so they don’t see and deal with men? Instead of limiting the women to the home, we should encourage them to be involved but while maintaining the Islamic code of conduct. Also, Allah (swt) says: “The believing men and believing women are supporters of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong… Those – Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” So there’s encouragement from Allah (swt) for men and women to help each other in spreading the deen (uplifting our youth, feeding the poor, giving da`wah, increasing knowledge, etc.)

As for the ayah you mentioned, I’d like to point out that it’s specifically addressing the wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him). If you look at the ayat before it (starting from 33:28), you will notice how Allah begins the ayat with “O Prophet, say to your wives…O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women… “

We know that these ayat are specifically addressing the wives of the Prophet because when Allah speaks to all the women in general (as in the ayat describing the women’s dress), He refers to them as ‘nisaa’ al-mu’mineen’ (women of the believers).

If you say but we’re supposed to take the wives of the Prophet (asws) as an example, I’ll say yes that’s true, but they had a special status and honor as the wives of the Prophet. That’s why they had specific rules applied to them. In the ayat preceding the one you quoted, they are informed of the doubled rewards/punishment for their good and bad deeds, respectively. They were also to remain in their homes (except for necessity) and be physically separated by a hijab (or barrier, not to be confused with its usage nowadays to mean headscarf) when other strangers come to their homes and ask them for something (33:53). As Abu Shuqqa mentions in Tahrir Al-Mar’ah Fi `Asr Al-Risalah (Women’s Liberation during the Era of the Prophetic Message), their isolation and separation was to distinguish them as the mothers of the believers, and it was also a preparatory stage for the eventual prohibition of anyone marrying them after the Prophet’s death. All of these characteristics of course don’t apply to the rest of women.

All this being said, I do realize that many of our MSA’s and even Islamic organizations have brothers and sisters mixing too much and straying away from the original purpose of what brought them together in the first place. If more harm and sin is gained from men and women interacting in a specific setting, then it’s best to avoid it if there’s no way of changing it. But, if there’s benefit and constructive work being produced and the brothers and sisters are observing their limits and not messing around, then insha’Allah they will be rewarded for their intentions and their efforts.

wAllahu a`lam!

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Is a sister in the name of Dawah allowed to get up on a platform and start speakings to a mixed audience?

Or is all her religious activities outside the home meant to be in a sisters only environment.

When we speak of Muraqabah of Allah swt, this means a close check on our actions as well and making sure we do what is in Allah swt’s pleasure.Which in the first instance means, our actions should be inline with Quran and Sunnah.

and Allah swt says;

33:33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

In our Salaf, the women built the community from her home outwards, today our sisters are focusing first on the outside, a place that is not meant for her by Allah swt.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Current score: 1 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

Current score: 2 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)