Comments on: An Eid gone awry

By: Roberta D

Roberta D — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:17:16 +0000

wa `aleykum selam wa rahmatullah, jazaki Allahu khayran for your comment. I think that's particularly ridiculous about the kids -- like okay you're going to take your little boys out and leave the girls at home? What kind of sense does that make? It's conditioning from the very start the idea that worship is more important for males than for females; truly horrible. I hope and pray that masajid in the US and Canada don't evolve into males-only institutions. Thanks for stopping by the site!

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By: Mother of 2

Mother of 2 — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:44:02 +0000

Salaam alaikum, This article (and the subsequent discussion) really hit a cord with me. In Hyderabad India, the masaajid are almost like men's clubs. I remember, when I got married there and stayed there briefly (4 months) if my (then)husband and I were out shopping...he would leave me at the store and go to the nearest masjid or musalla (practically one on every street), while I was left to fend for my salaah myself. Where was I supposed to do it? What's the best place if not at the masjid? Isn't salaah a fardh for every Muslim, man or woman? But I remember to even suggest it was like "What?! No, that's not a place for you." For whatever reason, from the spectrum of "They dont have a place set up for women" to the unspoken "You will be starred at and oogled," the reason was there. So much so that if men in the household were going to salaah they would take the male children (in this case 4 and 2) and leave the girl (aged 3). What kind of standard is that setting?? The little girl is not worthy? *shudders* Astaghfirullah. If for finding this an atrocity, I am labeled something (from the likes of Lyallpuri) then so be it. At least in the "west" I can raise my voice against an injustice. Salaam alaikum PS Keep up the good work.

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By: Roberta D

Roberta D — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:08:43 +0000

Ah, okay. jazak Allah khayr for the clarification!

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By: Asif

Asif — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:39:47 +0000

@ Roberta, My experience was mainly in Karachi. I don't know if things have really changed there now but I remember definite discimination against women in the local masjid (that often had ample space to accomodate them). I didnt mean to generalize Pakistan in general.

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By: Roberta D

Roberta D — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:37 +0000

Thanks for your comments Aynur . I think that our ray of hope needs to be ourselves. There are some Turkish women working to change things, and some of them have gained some ground, in addition to support from some Turkish Muslim men. I think it can be done insha’Allah — and in fact it must.

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By: Roberta D

Roberta D — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:41:21 +0000

I must say, you seem more intent on labeling me than listening to what I have to say. Come on! The connection here I'm making with women not having equal masjid rights is entirely about culture, culture that contradicts religion. I don't believe in giving men a break because they're religious and other men are secular. That doesn't excuse them for anything in the least. Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have, you would know from experience that these men will not be the "ray of hope" for Islam if what they are perpetuating is a version of Islam convenient only for themselves. How can you uphold Islam if you are not, in practice, upholding Islam?

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By: Aynur

Aynur — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:44:35 +0000

@Lyallpuri
“When you criticize them, you by extension criticize their practice of islam.”
The point being is that the women not having a place in the mosque or pushed over into a corner room is a CULTURAL practice.

“Given the fact that Turkey is brazenly secularists, these very people are they ray of hope, the upholders of Islam. ”
I’m guessing your Turkish then?
From my viewpoint, I’m not thinking that Turks are our “ray of hope”. Women in Turkey don’t attend jum’ah, it’s just accepted that way. Is anything going to change the men’s mind about that? I doubt it, at least I don’t see that happening any time soon.

“There are so many ways to tackle this issue, but your high browedness isn’t one. ”
I’m reading this article as an American, and I don’t see any of that attitude in her writing. As she stated, this is an issue here in the US too, with women being pushed into a different room, not involved with the masjid at all…

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By: Lyallpuri

Lyallpuri — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:07:36 +0000

Firstly, whether you like it or not...you're in the end of the day a salafist modernist (true to your forefather 'abduh). Secondly, it is clear from the sentiments of your article, that you associate women being cast out of mosques with "conservative" Turks, who in turn are associated with religion. When you criticize them, you by extension criticize their practice of islam. Given the fact that Turkey is brazenly secularists, these very people are they ray of hope, the upholders of Islam. When you work around their understanding of Islam, with your typical holier than thou Western attitude...you not only seek to change one aspect of their culture but it's entirety, as it is intrinsically related with their practice of religion. Individuals like yourself are greater danger to harmony of Muslim cultures and their practice in the east, because you work from "within". There are so many ways to tackle this issue, but your high browedness isn't one. Please keep your Western mindset to West, keep your "European/American/or whatever Islam it is that you have these days" to yourself. Muslims in the east don't need your sympathy. They could do with help, but not sympathy borne out of people like you thinking you have some sort of advantage over them just because you are "Westerner"!

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By: Roberta D

Roberta D — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:16:39 +0000

@Lyallpuri: In Turkey there are no fiqh rulings being referred to as an excuse to keep women out of the mosque. The force here sidelining women is culture, plain and simple. Your accusation that I'm a Salafist modernist is unfounded, so I won't respond to that. I find it strange, however, that you accuse me of seeing the Muslim world as a demonic other. Where have I evidenced anything to that effect? I have not. I also find it questionable that you accuse me of trying to liberate my so-called Eastern counterparts. To the contrary, my piece reflected on my experience with my community in the East and the lessons that my community back home in the West could learn from that. So the influence really is in the other direction East --> West. "just a new hijabified face of modernism. Nothing more." ... what does hijab have to do with any of this?

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By: Lyallpuri

Lyallpuri — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:16:35 +0000

Not allowing women in masaajid, and while I don't agree with it, is a valid "FIQH" opinion held by many scholars through out the ages, with a precedence among the sahabah. But, I wouldn't hold my bearth if you salafist modernist call it a "bid'ah" and "oppression" of women. Your rhetoric is filled with the same Euorcentric pomp and terminology used by neo-imperialist thinkers. You see muslim world as the "other", not just the "other" but the demonic "other". You feel as "western" "liberated" Muslimahs...a need to liberate your 'eastern' counterparts. And as a result of such way of thinking you even end up forgoing fiqh, shar'iah, and the countless no. of scholars (since they are parochial eastern men anyway, right?).... ....just a new hijabified face of modernism. Nothing more.

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